Fitness Profesisonal Online Radio Show 014: Interview with Karsten Jensen
Welcome to the Fitness Professional Online Radio Show where you get access to fitness industry news, tips and insights from professionals around the world. Visit us at FitnessProfessionalOnline.com and now, your host, Doug Holt.
Doug Holt: Hello and welcome to another edition of Fitness Professional Online Radio Show. I’m your host, Doug Holt and I’m here with you today on a beautiful sunny Santa Barbara Monday. Note in where it’s like where a year lived in as we’re getting calls all the way in Canada. I appreciate that last few calls had gotten based on our show with Lori. We got another great Canadian resident, Karsten Jensen who’s going to be on our call today. We’ll bring him in on the show.
For those of you that don’t know, Karsten has 15 years of experience as a strength and conditioning coach and as a founder and owner of Yes To Strength, a company committed to educating strength coaches, personal trainers and world class athletes on how to develop unlimited strength, power, speed and endurance by working with the inherent mechanisms of body, mind and spirit. He is the creator of A Flexible Periodization Method which I have read and I highly recommend everybody going out and checking out and has worked with Olympic World Class and internal level athletes from 21 sports over the last two decades. He is the first strength coach who creates complete systems of periodization.
I want to thank all of you that have been sending in those emails and leaving the voice messages on our line. It’s been great to get your feedback and words of encouragement. I also always appreciate your feedback on how we’re doing for FitnessProfessionalOnline.com and how I’m doing myself on this radio show. Hopefully, I’m getting a little better over time. It’s definitely not my forte. Had been in the strength and conditioning world for gosh, almost two decades now being recorded isn’t my thing but I do appreciate that feedback and I always take in the consideration. If there’s anything we can do for you, let us know. But I don’t want to waste your time. I really am excited about having Karsten in. He’s one of those guys that you can talk to for days. So I want to get to the information and get to Karsten. So let’s bring him on into the show.
Doug Holt: Hi Karsten, thank you so much for being with us today. I really appreciate it.
Karsten Jensen: Hey, Doug. Thank you.
Doug Holt: So we are talking offline briefly about a few things and tell me a little bit, about obviously you got over 15 years of experience and most people probably know of you from your Yes To Strength but you started out actually working with trained Olympic athletes. Can you tell us a little bit more about that?
Karsten Jensen: Yeah, I can. That was mainly in the Danish Sports System from ’99 to 2007 and then I was fortunate enough to work with their Olympic athletes approaching different sports in the Danish Sports System. What was really cool about it was that I was hired to do individualized-training programs. So I had the luxury, so to speak, to invest a lot of time in each athlete in a very small group and that taught me a lot.
Doug Holt: I bet absolutely. So going from that experience, working on that system, how do you get from there which is I’m guessing probably close to 15 years ago to where you are today?
Karsten Jensen: What happened was that in 2005, I went to the Swiss conference by pure excellence, so to speak, this was a conference outside Toronto at [Polacheck?] which you probably know of. He came to Denmark twice a year from 2001 to 2007 and he did his workshops in the facility that I worked in that was run by the Danish Sports System. And very often, after the workshops even I would go down and work out together in the gym that I work in with the athletes, I still clearly remember he said, just totally out of the blue that, “You should come to Swiss. It’s the last conference that I’m speaking and that’s a whole host of other really good speakers which was including [03:53] and at that conference, it so happened that I met my wife in late 2005 and in 2006, we got married and in 2007, I moved to Canada here outside Toronto.
Doug Holt: It’s fantastic. A lot of great names and especially meeting your wife, you can’t beat that.
Karsten Jensen: No, that was the best.
Doug Holt: I’d hope so that you had to say that too.
Karsten Jensen: Yeah.
Doug Holt: What got you into Yes To Strength? Walk me through that.
Karsten Jensen: Yeah. Around the same time, I had read a lot of materials from Matt Furey or you know whoever Matt Furey is?
Doug Holt: I’d know him very well.
Karsten Jensen: Yeah, he also puts out a marketing material. During that time when we started speaking on [04:35] story, MSN was in at that time, I felt it was an interesting idea to start a website. Initially, I wanted to work a lot as a strength coach simultaneously with running that website.
Doug Holt: Okay.
Karsten Jensen: I must say though that based on that Furey’s writings, it sounded quite easy to start a website. It takes way more to make it run and to make it go then. That was my initial impression for meeting that but that was the inspiration. Also our book, Combination Exercises was inspired by his Combat Conditioning in the sense that he centered his book with a number of exercises that seem covering some relatively brief suggestions for sales and reps.
Doug Holt: Yeah. I’m very familiar with that. I’ve seen a lot of his videos before.
Karsten Jensen: Okay, yeah.
Doug Holt: Okay. And so that got you a little bit more in into that realm?
Karsten Jensen: Yeah.
Doug Holt: What kind of services were you offering on Yes To Strength?
Karsten Jensen: Right now, Yes To Strength has three legs, so to speak, a leg where we sell product online which is books, DVD’s and manuals. Second leg which is 1 or 2-day workshops dedicated to strength coach and the personal trainers and a third leg where I directly teach athletes and fitness clients and the last leg is this year is not very dominant so to speak. The dominant leg is the online leg and the seminar leg. I’m teaching 38-weekends this year and either in Toronto area but also last weekend for example in North of Ontario and 5-hours away.
Doug Holt: Okay.
Karsten Jensen: [06:10] writing from time-to-time also.
Doug Holt: Okay. Fantastic. So you’re really developing your online business. It sounds like and your teaching advantage and leveraging your time a little bit more than just a typical hour-by-hour trainer model, is that right?
Karsten Jensen: Absolutely.
Doug Holt: Very smart. I love that. So I know your seminars, you’re doing 38 seminars or you have. So for those folks listening as they get to know you and I know there’s a lot of people who are probably already been on your site and was like to know you better. Give us an example of a seminar. What someone can expect coming out of one?
Karsten Jensen: So we have two theoretical seminars which is based on the Flexible Periodization Method that I know that you’re aware of, a periodization system and we teach the theory behind it and the 9 steps which are the key to using the method. We put a lot of emphasis on enabling the trainer to learn so much so they can go out on the Monday the day or two days after the seminar and improve the way that they work with their clients, that is the most important.
Doug Holt: Okay.
Karsten Jensen: On the other end of the spectrum, we have some workshops that are extremely practical. For example, we have a workshop and combination exercises that I mentioned before where the key thing is to teach the trainer 7 key principles for creating combination exercises of their own. And every person, they got the best feedback that I could ever give for their workshop because a trainer said that, “Now I’ve attended to this workshop, I have exercises to last me forever.”
Doug Holt: Wow.
Karsten Jensen: Because the trainer really learns from that is to create their own exercises and have to put them together.
Doug Holt: And I’m going to guess those exercises also follow in to that periodization scheme?
Karsten Jensen: Yeah. They help the trainer select exercises, so that would be specifically step 5 of the 9 steps. So most of our other workshops enhance a trainers work with the 9 steps of the Flexible Periodization Method. So that’s kind of the core of the business, so to speak, and then the other workshops enhance that core. We also have a workshop that is about the art exercise instruction. So that emphasizes obviously instructing better and troubleshooting better.
Doug Holt: Karsten, are you the only person at the workshops or are you bringing in other strength coaches?
Karsten Jensen: So far, I am the only one teaching the workshops.
Doug Holt: Fantastic. That’s exactly how I full start-off as you know.
Karsten Jensen: Yeah.
Doug Holt: So you’d be there and you’ll be leading the way.
Karsten Jensen: Absolutely, yeah.
Doug Holt: And I know you wrote a book, a large book, 400-pages as I understand in the Flexible Periodization Method?
Karsten Jensen: Yeah.
Doug Holt: And that’s available on your website. You did have one that our staff pulled out right away and brought to our attention and I got to let our listeners know this but one of your other eBooks is entitled, Best Butt on the Beach. What a great title. Tell us a little bit about that. How did you come up with that one?
Karsten Jensen: Yeah. So my wife has a really good friend in Brazil and she puts on fitness seminars from time-to-time and in late 2007, we were invited down there to speak. And I seemed really thought, I told combine pleasure with a little bit of work. I was already at that time interested in outdoor training. So we shot a bunch of exercise videos, pictures on the beach [09:27] Brazil called “Bahia” and then around those exercises, I created a book called Best Butt on the Beach where Chapter 1 is more theoretical.
Physiologically speaking, looks at the advantages of training in sand and outdoors and the other chapters mainly focuses on exercises and program examples. There’s a really interesting quote that runs in some of the old time strong man books, Hackenschmidt, [09:56] and the European strong men from the early 20th century which goes train outside as much as possible at no less than with close, that’s possible. And then one of the books that I came across talked in detail about the power of the sun and fresh air where you stay in temperatures that doesn’t burn you all day, The Healing Sun, Richard Hobday I think is the author. I’m on a book.
Doug Holt: Interesting. Okay. I’m going to read that one.
Karsten Jensen: A full training is outside also so it’s something that stuck.
Doug Holt: And if you always been interested in outdoor training, I know a lot of the people that you’ve mentioned kind of been your mentors or people you’ve talked about, really emphasize body weight training and more natural I guess, humanistic movements or what people call it. Have you always been leaning towards that field or is that been a change in your…?
Karsten Jensen: No. That has been a change. It came around that time. It tied in with the [10:49] worked in Denmark. My own workouts were at work so to speak before office hours. So I would work out myself in the early morning at that gym where I have worked with the athletes later on. After I come here, as I have mentioned, I do more of writings from my home office. So now my work goes outside. I don’t care anywhere and because I have zero transportation time, it allows me to work out more often, as often as I like compared to if I had to drive somewhere to do it.
Doug Holt: Fantastic.
Karsten Jensen: Yeah.
Doug Holt: So it’s been a relatively recent change.
Karsten Jensen: Yeah.
Doug Holt: Okay, great. And obviously, you’ve studied a lot of the older books and older things. Is that something you continually do or you’re continually researching from not just the present day’s scientific facts but also looking at these Milo and some of the older strong man books and references?
Karsten Jensen: I absolutely be, right. I think one of the most important things we can do when we do research is look at all the different niches or sub-cultures or what is the most appropriate that may have unique information or in occasion, I go to Bill Hinbern’s site, SuperStrengthBooks.com where who has all those books that I’m aware of and I absolutely research those. One of the things that I’m contemplating right now is that a lot of those old guys, they did hand balancing, where going into a handstand and walking.
Doug Holt: Yeah.
Karsten Jensen: And I think the main view of that is that it did to improve pressing strength. I spoke to a guy yesterday who said that whether they stop doing that when the presses disappeared from the weightlifting competitions. My idea is though that there were secondary effects of those hand balancing exercises. For example, if you have ever tried it or even just got into handstand you will realize the work the work that your finger flexors get in controlling the center of gravity.
Next, we know that low level of impact is stimulus for bone growth so it could possibly affect the bone strength of the four arms and the upper arms. Also injured prevention for the shoulder joint and reverse loading of the lower back and then unloading of the lower internal organs, improving the blood flow to that area. By the same token as which is the benefits of the inverted postures in yoga improves blood flow to some of the internal organs. So I think there’s a hose of benefit to hand balancing that may have been [13:22]
Doug Holt: Absolutely. I can attest to a lot of our clients and you mean Capoeira practitioners often talk about a lot of those with breathing and also shoulder stabilization being a lot for the benefits coming from that. Obviously, you’re very well-read and you read a lot. And a lot of the readers, they’re actually at least contacting us via email talking about, “Where do I get started? What’s the first? There’s so much out there.” Are there any cues that you would say to someone just entering the field of exercise science or personal training, where should they start their education process in your eyes?
Karsten Jensen: A specific book?
Doug Holt: A couple of books that you might want. You throw out there courses.
Karsten Jensen: Yeah.
Doug Holt: Things along that nature, what would you recommend?
Karsten Jensen: I would have to say that I have learned tremendously from the programs put out by the Czech Institute they have certainly very, very well for the durations and seem start to taking them that would be one thing. And one thing that pull to it, I don’t remember if there was at an actual victory, there was in between he said he spoke about how his education was guided by the challenges he experienced with the people that he worked with.
So the story he often tells was that how he was allowed to train on himself, he would train the other person, I believe it was [14:37] so that when someone showed up with a specific problem, he would research that problem. So he would experience the issue first and then will do research and essentially making sure that whatever he learned, he would use it right away so it would be very targeted to its daily practice. I think, in a very important concept there.
And one of the things that teach a lot is the process of creating the programs that step-wise process. And I very often encourage trainers to be strongly aware of what questions they can answer as they go through that process and when they realize that there’s something they can’t answer, take the time to define a specific question that and then subsequently, you can do research on as opposed to staying in a confused state and not really being sure.
Doug Holt: Can you give us an example of that?
Karsten Jensen: For example, we spoke about exercises. In one of my earliest memories with program decide was that I had created based on [15:36] books, one of those big yallie templates. And I remember sitting looking at the blank template wondering what exercises to put in there and it very quickly occurred to me that unless I learn and/or develop some specific principles for choosing exercises in relation to client’s goals, then every time would be like starting all over.
Doug Holt: Yeah.
Karsten Jensen: That’s why, I started researching principles of selection for example which is what I’m now putting into the book called Beyond Functional Training, that’s on the blog that’s on your website. That would be one example of that. Anthony Robbins for example also in the Awaken the Giant Within talks about the power of questions. Another of my favourite author is Dr. Bruce Lipton with Biology of Belief. When you read through his books, you will see that almost every chapter begins with a question. So he essentially shows the reader how he thinks and then the next chapter will answer his question.
Doug Holt: Interesting. I haven’t read any of his work before.
Karsten Jensen: If enough personal trainers read it, it would be a strength coach and it would be a ground breaking for field of work.
Doug Holt: Well there you go, that might be one of our future books of the month that we do and we highlight.
Karsten Jensen: Yeah, you could try. Essentially what he says is that, “The expression of genes is controlled by beliefs. It’s not pre-determined which is currently believed of or is believed by many,” that’s the conclusion of his book.
Doug Holt: Interesting. I like that. And you mentioned Anthony Robbins. It seems one of the prevailing factors for a lot of the very successful people and in the industry but especially in our industry tends to do a lot of not only business development but also interpersonal or just personal development. Is that the path you’ve taken on yourself as well?
Karsten Jensen: Absolutely. That’s the much longer path of my training. It began when I play tennis when I was a teenager competitively in Denmark and now I got to be nationally ranked and I had a very progressive tennis coach who gave me a tape back then, that’s how old I am, a [17:45] training. It created by Björn Borg the Swedish player who was like the best in the world like in the ’70s and ’80s and that was my first exposure to mental training really and I used it on several occasions when I was a competitive tennis player to get to my best game that I could possibly reach. [18:04] relaxation and also visualization.
Doug Holt: Fantastic.
Karsten Jensen: And I continue to read. I continuously read self-development books ever since.
Doug Holt: What are you reading now?
Karsten Jensen: Right now, I am reading a book by guy called Neville. It’s about The Power of Awareness. It’s a spiritual book. Essentially, it relates to the power of intent also. You can say if you don’t believe what he says, it will not make any sense and that’s why I would mention another book which was the book I read before, it’s called, The Intention Experiments by Lynn McTaggart. It is essentially is a literature of review of all the scientific experiments that are done on the power of intention. It proves that we can affect the physical world using intent and visualization. And the last chapter is all the specific guidelines for doing it.
Doug Holt: That’s great. Have you read the Power of Intention by Dr. Wayne Dyer?
Karsten Jensen: I have.
Doug Holt: I see. Fantastic.
Karsten Jensen: Yeah. I have read a lot of his books also. For anyone who likes Wayne Dyer and maybe have only read his books but not his audios. His books are great but he is out of this world when he does the live recordings of him. It is very, very, very, very good. I really like those.
Doug Holt: I agree. I couldn’t agree with you more. And it’s interesting when we talk about the intention experience about having the research in there and your experience with the cassette tapes which I used to have too, so I’m with you, all that reminiscing. But it’s just like exercise science so to speak. I think it was Boyle who said its exercise history almost because the people in the trenches have figured it out long before science can prove it. They know it works. And that’s the same with this personal development power of intention. There are a lot of people that proven it works long before science comes along, seemed to use that method.
Karsten Jensen: Yeah, absolutely. I totally agree. Another of my favourite authors Gregg Bradden, he has a program on The Divine Matrix which is a lot the same lines as the Intention Experiment and one thing he talks about is that the scientific method is only one way of knowing things which is a way of knowing things that has become prevalent since 1700 or something I don’t remember exactly when was the birth of the scientific method. But before then, we’re still knowing things in different way, for example, through experience and for example through intuition and through knowledge. I think it’s important to recognize this simply as different ways of knowing things.
Doug Holt: I agree. I think it’s important thing to remember and especially for younger trainers or not younger per say, put newer trainers to remember. And it’s not just a one size fits all.
Karsten Jensen: No. No, absolutely.
Doug Holt: Obviously, you’re very well-rounded and very experienced. Where do you see our industry headed in the next 2 to 5 years?
Karsten Jensen: First of all, I would say this is probably just personal preference because the first many, many years, I was working for a company so there was not a lot of industry in it for me and I actually cringe every time I hear what we do refer to as an industry. I think, let’s think about mid-factories when I hear the word industry. I hope that there is base for both the type of work where people can serve a lot of clients and a lot of athletes at the same time in a setting but where the programs maybe are not totally geared to those athletes or clients if that’s what they would like. And I hope that there are also be space for the personal trainers and strength coaches who would like to give totally individualized programs to the athletes and clients in a more inclusive setting for that matter so that we can embrace both things. I think it’s important to try and essentially upgrade and educate at these parts of our field of work.
Doug Holt: Yeah. I think that’s the prevailing thought through a lot of people I’ve been in the industry for sometime is we’d like to see that bar being raised a little bit.
Karsten Jensen: Yeah.
Doug Holt: Or a lot of bit in some cases.
Karsten Jensen: Yeah. For me, it’s a lot about simply understanding that if someone comes to as with a goal to change the bodies or get stronger or anything. What does that actually take? What are the things that we can affect to accomplish that and don’t leave anything to chance?
Doug Holt: Absolutely and more of holistic approach.
Karsten Jensen: More of a holistic approach. And I’ve got to give check credit for essentially putting everyone into my head to that was where I heard it the first time. It makes so much sense that if there are ten factors that can affect the outcome of the training program and we as personal trainers, we only look at four of them and we only work at four of them. And that we glint was in number 7 which we didn’t consider and then most likely the client is not going to see any change.
Doug Holt: Yeah.
Karsten Jensen: But if we can truly identify the weak link, whatever the weak link is, then we maximize our chances of helping the clients.
Doug Holt: Absolutely.
Karsten Jensen: And sometimes that we glint, I think everybody has experienced that it’s not about what’s being done in the gym but it’s what’s happening outside of the gym because you can really [23:29] fitness client.
Doug Holt: Yeah. More of a psychological component than it is a physical component.
Karsten Jensen: Psychological, yeah and lifestyle as far as nutrition, sleeping, and stress are some things I get.
Doug Holt: Absolutely. It all takes in the factor. Now I’ve seen the Chuck questionnaire, health history questionnaire. When you meet with a new client and I know that this is a large percentage of your business anymore. But to give an idea of those listening, when you meet with somebody, what’s a typical consultation look like? If I sit down with you today and said, “Hey, Karsten. I want to change my body.” Where do you take it from there?
Karsten Jensen: Yeah. Some of the things that we begin with i0073 for example, “Why did you contact me?” To figure out what is the depth that they were looking at. And sometimes the replies to that for, lately I’ve been approach by [24:13] of players in the Toronto area is that they see that I work with [24:17] and players before [24:19] Danish [24:19] players which even over here are recognized that some of the world’s best. That would be like a one part of it. [24:26] is how did you find me? So they would tell me a little bit about which part of my marketing there worked or didn’t work and very often, that’s word of mouth. That’s part of experience so far.
Doug Holt: Yeah.
Karsten Jensen: The next big thing is I talked to them about what in the Flexible Perioditization is called to the type 1 goal or the overall goal which for fitness client is often some kind of change in body composition, so we talked about that. For athletes, it can be improving feet performance or improving the ability to repeat feet performance or sometimes the ability to train more without getting injured. There are 7 different categories and they always fall into one of those in 7 categories. After that, we talked about competition schedule or deadline. I used the smart goal approach, we talked about that.
Before the meeting, they have filled out a form about previous training experience, something that emphasized a lot. So for example, unless you say there have phenomenal experience with the dead lift, into dead lift is still a good exercise for them, I would include that in the program. Because if they didn’t know that they can do it and they believe it’s an effective exercise, so build on a previous success. On the other hand if let’s say they had bad experience with the bench press, they say, their shoulder get injured or they just don’t like it. If the bench press is not a necessary exercise, I may stay away from it.
If I can do something else, if it is a necessary exercise, I may refer them out to have that shoulder looked at. I will look at that technique; maybe they didn’t have proper technique. So the point of training experience will speak about the current schedule to how often and how long can they train and sometimes, that’s very fit from their perspective, two times a week, three times a week. Other times, it could become a negotiation so they have certain ideas but they will ask me, “How often should I train?” And then we as trainer, we should be able to keep the idea amount of training.
Lastly, I will recommend assessments. So based on the goal which they have given me on a form, I have created a list of all the factors that can affect the outcome that’s referred to in the Flexible Periodization Method also as the list that is also aspire from check which we have to keep at guard from Chinese medicine what they call it, “Surrounding the Dragon,” so everything that can be done. I will look through that list and see which of the items that I have information from the initial forms and then I will make an evaluation of which assessments I need to do to get information about other items. And if it’s assessments that I can perform, I will schedule a time to do them. If it’s assessments that I have to refer out, ideally I will suggest that the client or athlete go see a qualified professional for that, that’s roughly speaking. It is a very comprehensive approach in general.
The end result is that I’m very confident that the client get ends with the right training program and the client always experiences that these are the training program really fits the needs. I’ll give you one recent example of it with that badminton player where him and his coach said that he had problems hitting the ball high enough. You’re supposed to kind of reach upward and hit it like you would in tennis and they have worked a lot with it in technical practice but nothing seem to help. When did to flexibility assessment on, he had limited range of motion in shoulder flex and probably the greatest limitization I have ever seen in that movement. And as soon as that started to get better, he was also able to get the ball higher. As I get a good example of identifying what was really the weak link.
Doug Holt: Absolutely. Looking at the whole picture again, it brings it all back to that.
Karsten Jensen: Yeah, exactly. It’s so fundamental.
Doug Holt: Definitely is. Well Karsten, I really appreciate and I don’t want to take too much of your time because I know how busy you are.
Karsten Jensen: I’m enjoying our conversation, Doug.
Doug Holt: Okay, great. Well I always want to keep you going. Where can people find you? If they want to get a hold of you, Karsten, where should they go?
Karsten Jensen: That’s on our website at www.YesToStrength.com.
Doug Holt: Okay. And then how about if someone wants to email, they can email you through that site for follow up questions?
Karsten Jensen: Yeah. There is contact information at the bottom of the website. They can email me that way.
Doug Holt: And they can also find you through the Fitness Professional Online article that you wrote. It’s a fantastic article, by the way. I really enjoyed reading that so to everybody else here going through that as well.
Karsten Jensen: Thank you.
Doug Holt: Well at a time, Karsten, I’d love to have you back on. If we can get you back on the show because I think there’s so much more to talk about with you. You’re such a well-rounded individual and you’re doing so many positive things in the industry. Can we get you back a couple of months here in a follow up?
Karsten Jensen: Absolutely, Doug. I’m honoured to be on the show and I’m honoured that our blogs are on your website. It’s nice working with you.
Doug Holt: Likewise. And for those listening, definitely go to www.YesToStrength.com check out Karsten’s work there. You can even see pictures of him playing tennis at age 7, I believe.
Karsten Jensen: A little bit older, 9 I think.
Doug Holt: Okay, there you go. And we’re in Santa Barbara right by the ocean. I think some people are going to pick up that book on the sand train that you have on there too.
Karsten Jensen: That will be awesome. There are really some good exercises in there and sand is a very interesting power from a lot perspective, I think.
Doug Holt: Absolutely. I agree. We train a couple of people out there. Well again Karsten, I can’t thank you enough for taking a time of your day. Thank you so much for being in and we’ll get you back on shortly. And for those listening, if you have questions for Karsten, if you want to email him directly or you can shoot us on our hotline as always and we’ll get those answered for you when we’ll have him back on the show.
Karsten Jensen: Thank you, Doug. It was a pleasure speaking with you.
Doug Holt: Karsten never fails to deliver. Thanks again, Karsten. I know you had a busy schedule so I appreciate you being on the show at us today. For all of us here at Fitness Professional Online Radio Show, that’s a wrap. Hope you and your family have a great week. Take care.
Thank you for listening to the Fitness Professional Online Radio Show. You can share your thoughts and join the discussion on this episode by going through our website or on Facebook.com/FitProOnline. Let us know what you’d like to hear on future shows and please feel free to contact us via e-mail or give us a call at (805) 500-6893. We look forward to hearing from you.
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